Episode 1: — A Brief History of Clean Energy in Asia

All eyes are on Asia as it attempts to complete a clean energy transition away from fossil fuels. National governments will have to work with the private sector to achieve their ambitious climate goals. That’s where the Climate Solutions Partnership (CSP) comes into play.

With financial support from HSBC, WRI researchers are innovating and implementing data-backed solutions to steer more private finance toward the scaling up of renewable energy across Asia. Hear from three experts at the forefront of the nexus between capital and clean energy to see how the Asian countries where the CSP operates in – China, India, Indonesia and Vietnam – are leading the way toward a decarbonized future, as well as the challenges they face in completing that journey.

Transcript for Intro Episode

0:05 – 6:54 Clorinda Wibowo (WRI Indonesia)

You are listening to WRI’s Big Ideas Into Action podcast. And we want to welcome you to the first episode of Turning Up Clean Energy in Asia. Throughout this series, we’ll cover how research projects led by World Resources Institute – or WRI for short -- accelerate the clean energy transition in China, India, Indonesia, and Vietnam.

My name is Clorinda Wibowo, Senior Manager of Energy and Sustainable Business, here at WRI Indonesia. I’ll be your host for this episode. Thanks for tuning in!

The Climate Solutions Partnership – here-on out referred to as the CSP -- is a collaboration between WRI, the World Wildlife Fund (or WWF), and HSBC....HSBC also funds the CSP.

WRI-led CSP projects aim to break down barriers to private finance investing in renewable energy, build up capacity to decarbonize supply chains, and bring together stakeholders who can reimagine the private sector’s role in transforming the energy sector, while implementing research-based solutions.

Before we begin, we must acknowledge the historical context of global energy. The United States and European countries kicked off the Industrial Revolution around 1850 and through the first 100 years, they were responsible for a vast majority of GHG emissions, according to WRI’s own Climate Watch.

Then, they offshored much of their manufacturing needs to other countries around the world, shifting the climate burden to those countries which were looking to provide for their own growing populations...all while helping meet the demands of increasing consumption in Western countries in an increasingly unregulated world.

We will focus on the four CSP countries – China, India, Indonesia, and Vietnam. According to data from the World Bank, the four CSP countries are among the largest manufacturing countries in the world – producing things for locals with newfound wealth who are looking to increase their quality of life and producing critical parts for global brands that moved their supply chains to Asia.

Such rapid economic development led to an equally rapid increase in demand for energy, and thus GHG emissions. Since 1990, the percentage of global GHG emissions in the four CSP countries has more than doubled, based on data collected and analyzed by WRI, accounting for more than a third of the world’s GHG emissions in that time-span.

While this pales in comparison to historical emissions produced by the like of the U.S. and other European countries, the region – like the rest of the world – sits at a crossroads. The continual influx of cash to the region could fund more fossil fuel infrastructure or spur on the clean energy transition.

Take China, which makes up 53% of global coal use according to the International Energy Agency, which accounts for 70% of its total emissions! And yet, China plans to build a mind-boggling 3,100 GW of renewable energy by 2030.

According to a recent report from Climate Analytics, China and India are engaged in “a spree of coal-fired power plant construction,” but Asia is also the only region broadly on track to triple renewables by 2030 --- the agreed upon goal set by countries at COP28 in 2023. In fact, the report asserts that tripling renewable energy is “possibly the most powerful action the world can take in the transition away from fossil fuels in this critical decade.”

One other point sticks out from the report. The transition will cost money. A lot of it. From this year, 2024, all the way through 2030, annual spending on renewable energy expansion needs to double from the current $1 trillion mark. How and where will this money materialize?

That’s where the CSP comes in!

In each episode, you’ll learn about the details of projects that are poised to scale the private sector’s role in accelerating the clean energy transition. You’ll hear from the WRI researchers behind each project, as well as some of our partners and outside experts. Most of all, we hope that you’ll understand the role that each country can play in bringing these data-backed solutions to commercial viability.

Thank you to HSBC for funding the CSP and our colleagues at WWF, for their partnership in research and implementation of the projects. Speaking of those projects, it’s time to look at the big picture of how Asia became a manufacturing powerhouse...and what that means for the clean energy transition on the continent.

Joining us to talk about the history of energy in Asia is Justin Wu (HSBC), the Asia-Pacific Co-head of Climate Change for HSBC......and Beni Suryadi (ASEAN Centre for Energy) Suryadi, the Acting Manager of Sustainable and Renewable Energy for the ASEAN Centre for Energy.

We're also thrilled to be joined by Deepak Krishnan (WRI India), WRI India’s Deputy Director of the Energy Program. Welcome to all the speakers to the podcast!

Asia is home to rapidly growing manufacturing industries. How have these industries been operating in line with sustainable principles...or how have they not? I’ll send this over to Deepak as I know that WRI India is working on industrial decarbonization projects. Over to you, Deepak.

6:55 - 9:25 Deepak Krishnan (WRI India)

Thank you Inda for the question, and great to be on this panel discussion. So, Asia is a growing region and many types of industries are setting up base [there]; folks who are already there are expanding their operations. But what we are seeing on the ground in India and as well as some limited experience in the Southeast Asian region is that corporates are particularly serious about these issues and they are doing what they can in the region that they’re operating in to ensure that sustainability remains a top agenda item and that they deliver on the commitment, which is more important than making those commitments.

Speaking particularly from a clean energy perspective, again, a little bit of numbers over here. The Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) which brings out these corporate power purchasing agreement volumes, showed that from FY22-23, corporate PPA volumes in Asia-Pacific grew from 7.7 GW to 9.7 GW. And the forecast is that the Asia region is going to continue to grow; already, we have seen growth in Asia and Europe, you know, superseding growth in America, which has been leader in the last few years of this track record that Bloomberg has been building. What we also have been seeing is that it’s not just large companies who are, you know, taking up commitments and trying to deliver on them. Even the smaller, medium, and small-scale enterprises (SMEs) -- who typically form part of the supply chain of large corporates – are also taking part in this journey, though they definitely need more help, moving forward.

At the same time, one should also bear in mind that there is a larger question about greenwashing and whether targets that been set are delivered upon. So in this context, one should keep in mind that corporates are trying. Not everything, in terms of policy and the geopolitics doesn’t always happen to be in their favor – given this context, I feel that sustainability is a big part of Asian companies' journey, and a lot of them are taking steps to deliver on it.

9:26 – 9:45 Clorinda (WRI Indonesia)

Thank you, awesome, Deepak. Now I'm going to turn to Pak [“Pak” is a prefix used as a sign of respect in Indonesia] Beni. Who are the primary actors that shape the current energy policy in Asia and how much does the state or the government decide things, compared to the private sector, Pak Beni?

9:46 – 12:18 Beni Suryadi (ASEAN Centre for Energy)

So thank you, Clorinda! Thank you for having me in the discussion.

As we know that in many Asian countries and the Southeast Asia countries, the states retain significant control over the and energy sector through the state-owned energy and regulatory framework. Countries like Indonesia or Vietnam have a strong governmental oversight and intervention in the energy policy and infrastructure development.

We do acknowledge that the private sector's role is growing, especially in the countries that are liberalizing their energy markets. In Asia, in general, we've seen it's in Japan and South Korea but particularly in the Southeast Asia, we see how the private sector is playing a significant role in countries such as Singapore or the Philippines. We also have seen the increased private investment in renewable energy and technology innovation.

However, even in this context, the states often retain a significant regulatory and policy-making roles. And furthermore, as we’re talking about increasing private investment countries like Thailand, Malaysia, and the Philippines are seeing growing private sector involvement in renewable energy projects -- of course supported by the government policy aimed at the market liberalization, commonly known through the public private partnership, where we acknowledge that these partnerships are crucial in developing energy infrastructure, with the private companies bringing in capital and expertise.

While the state remains the primary actor in shaping energy policy in many countries in the region, there is a noticeable trend toward increasing private sector involvement, again particularly in the renewable energy sectors and technological innovation. The balance of the powers vary across the region, with some countries maintaining strong government control, but the others are also embracing a more market-driven approach.

12:19 – 12:57 Clorinda (WRI Indonesia)

Thank you, thank you Park Beni. While you've also already talked about how the public and private sectors are the key or important actors in this landscape, I would like to ask to Justin (Wu): From your perspective as a financier, how closely are the economic and the decarbonization goals linked in a country context? Like how can the private sector decarbonize, without the pursuit of net-zero targets becoming a liability for companies?

12:58 – 15:50 Justin Wu (HSBC)

Yeah, and thank you, thank you for the question, and for having me on the podcast, [it’s] really a pleasure to be here with everyone.

You know, the decarbonization goals of a country, particularly in Asia, is very much linked to its economic trajectory. There is no sort of decarbonization unless, you know, the whole economy essentially is mobilized and transformed in some way. It doesn't happen separately in isolation. It's not a side project. It is the economic plan of your country if you have a decarbonization pathway. And of course, the key is to make sure that a decarbonization or net-zero pathway also creates economic growth and opportunity, and the private sector is able to continue to thrive in this sort of environment. I think that's what public policy needs to sort of, you know, make sure that is sort of aligned and enables that to happen.

I think in Asia this is particularly an important issue. Of course there's a very diverse set of countries in Asia, but the state tends to play an important role in economic development, or has played and continues to play an important role in economic development in all of these countries. Therefore, it will have an important role to play in its decarbonization goals as well.

So take a few examples right? If you see China, for example, as a country that has probably been the most successful in the world in terms of scaling up renewable energy, both in terms of deploying wind, and solar, and electric vehicles, but also building a manufacturing industry and supply chain around it. You know, this has been a topic of quite a bit of discussion in the media, but clearly favorable government policies over the past decade has enabled that to happen, and I think that's been the case for many other countries as well. And then if you look at Southeast Asia, right? Many of the energy companies are state-owned companies; very much tied to the national economic development of that country, very much tied to energy security and many other, you know, socioeconomic context issues. These companies seem to play a important role in hitting net-zero targets and finding a way to provide -- can you provide affordable but clean energy in these countries? So, that is definitely something that the, you know, public sector or the government needs to play a role in them.

And at the same time, I think for private companies, clearly they need to be mobilized to see a business case in doing so, and only in that way can they actually, you know, scale a lot of these technologies, make them commercially viable, and then we can sort of, you know, see the levels of investment that we need to see to achieve the net-zero goals that we've set out to achieve.

15:52 – 16:28 Clorinda (WRI Indonesia)

So Deepak, if we compare that with your perspective as more as the neutral and nonprofit organization in India, as one of the driving countries with a lot of private sectors that now are already submitting to SBTi and so on. And you mentioned that a lot of companies are already doing the sustainability measures. Do you think that these private sectors are actually decarbonizing and also gaining the economic benefit out of it?

16:29 – 19:22 Deepak Krishnan (WRI India)

Yes, so one of the driving forces for adopting decarbonization measures, particularly renewable energy, is cost. So in India, we have a system where there is something called a cross-subsidy mechanism, wherein commercial and industrial consumers are charged a higher tariff than the average rate. So let's say if the average rate is four, the commercial guys and industrial guys are charged at 6 or 7 or sometimes even 9 and ten rupees per unit of electricity. And this cross-subsidizes a lot of poorer residential segments and agricultural consumers. So, there is a system which has been in place and every year, given the fuel price variations costs that utilities incur, companies are always finding that their tariff is only growing higher and higher, whereas if they get into contracts with the renewable energy companies, for instance, whether it is a wind farm or an on-site solar project on their roof, what they are seeing is that there may be some initial investment that they have to make, if they go with one particular model, but then they are locked into a particular price and they start to see the savings from, you know, day one.

There are other models wherein, you know, companies called RESCO – that is Renewable Energy Services Companies – come and set these panels on your roof, supply electricity like another utility and your power purchase costs are effectively different. This also applies if companies are looking at energy efficiency interventions, since we, you know, clean solutions, we want to look at both energy efficiency and renewables. Even in energy efficiency, we are finding these models come in where, you know, there is a service company that comes in, makes the investments, enters into an agreement with you to, you know, offset your savings against the bill and they earn their revenue. So that is a significant driver for companies.

Apart from that, there are also regulatory mandates if you are a corporate who is procuring, say, thermal electricity from, you know, through private contracts, then some share of renewable purchase obligation has to be met. At the same time, new rules like CBAM [Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism] are slowly seeping in, though they are so concentrated on specific sectors and also their applicability is, you know, not sure of when it will actually kickstart in full. So, such regulatory measures or the company's own desire to be seen as a, you know, an organization that adheres to, you know, the fight against climate change and wants to be seen as the leader. So, these are some of the drivers, but without the savings that renewable energy offers, I'm not sure that the momentum would have picked up so much. So definitely people who have implemented [these solutions] are seeing savings.

19:23 – 19:50 Clorinda (WRI Indonesia)

You mentioned a lot of very interesting examples from India, regarding the, I would say it as, cost incentives that incentivizes these companies to transition and gain the economic benefit out of it. But I'm curious, Pak Beni, do you see these trends as cost incentives already applies in many Asian countries right now? Or do you see it as still a challenge for many Asian countries?

19:51 – 21:11 Beni Suryadi (ASEAN Centre for Energy)

Indeed, it is still a challenge for many in the Southeast Asian countries. Cost is always, I mean any time they have a kind of discussion with private sectors, cost [and] the investment always comes on top. It’s not over simplified that the monies doesn't exist, but there's a lot of barriers we highlighted that hampers the opportunities. The cost falls into four aspects in the issue of the ease of doing the business.

Many private [companies] or manufacturing factories consistently cite the political and economic stability as the foundation for investment they made. And then also the effectiveness of the process, such as import-export is also very critical. And then also in the issue of the availability of low-cost production and effective logistic system, as well as access to export markets.

But then, this is just a sum up that shows the cost of investment are, indeed, critical barriers for accelerating the clean energy transition.

21:40 – 21:28 Clorinda (WRI Indonesia)

Thank you, Pak Beni. I'm interested about Justin’s perspective for these questions. Do you think that cost is still a challenge for most of these Asian countries? Or do you think there are other challenges like Pak Beni mentioned, as well?

21:29 – 24:24 Justin Wu (HSBC)

Yeah, I think it's a very good question right? So, I think from the first principles, you know, with any company pursuing a sustainable solution or, you know, a decarbonization solution, I think it’s quite important to, well, set goals and have ambitions and then also try to align it with your overall business strategy, right. So, you don't want to view it as sort of a separate side show. You want it as your sort of main business strategy, and clearly you also wanted to have a strong business case for doing so. Often, the example that Deepak, you know, and you mentioned in India about procuring clean energy actually as a cost-saving measure, right? Who wouldn't want to secure affordable, clean energy for a long period time at a low price? I mean, I think a strong business case to do that will of course, you know, always be favorable to a company.

But having said that, I think in, you know for instance, in Southeast Asia, but also in some other places, often this is not...you know, there are various distortions, let's say in the market or in the system that maybe caused this not to align your incentives, right? So, for instance, we can say clean energy is very cheap, very affordable, but you know, for various reasons, let's say the cost of capital or cost of the financing in these countries is higher than in other places, and clean energy clearly is different from fossil fuels in that you have to have a lot more upfront capital investment, right? And you don’t have zero operating costs or low operating cost, but you have a lot of upfront costs, so cost of capital is a big...is a big issue in these emerging countries and this gets talked about a lot in various international forums.

But also, I think it’s one of the issues we address in the in the CSP (Climate Solutions Partnership) as well. But clearly this is one thing that is holding [the transition] back. Others, such as whether, you know, you have the right incentives in place for renewable energy to kind of achieve its potential; whether they [companies] have access to the grid and, you know, companies are allowed to procure it at a good price, whether there's subsidies for fossil fuels that also distort the market.

So, I think a lot of these things will ultimately distort the fundamentals of if it were purely competitive between let's say decarbonization sources and other things, you know, some of these issues might distort it. And secondly, I think, you know, clean energy is well-known, I think it's a scalable solution. There are others emerging technologies that we may need to deploy for decarbonization that are higher cost and more risky, right, and less sort of well-tried for instance, and that may need a bit of a kick or a boost from the beginning. And that, again, is either -- we need policy to help that, we need philanthropic, you know, funding or sort of development funds; something to kind of, you know, kickstart that as well, right? So, I think depending on the solution, there are, you know, certain applications, certain solutions that we must apply, and of course we have to sort of have a level playing field for everything as well as they scale. 

24:25 – 25:01 Clorinda (WRI Indonesia) 

I sense, optimism about the challenge that we are currently facing, in terms of the cost and the technologies, and maybe the leadership or the willingness from each country.

So with that in mind, what will be your thoughts, and this is for all the panelists actually, what are your thoughts on how these Asian countries – China, India, Indonesia, and Vietnam – can achieve their clean energy goals in the future? What potential solutions do you see for progressing forward? Maybe I'll start from Deepak.

25:02 – 26:44 Deepak Krishnan (WRI India)

Sure, thanks in India. So, the potential is varied because one, there is the technological front where right now a lot of solutions are focused on solar PV, then on thermal side to a limited extent. Solar-thermal has come in, biogas is there. But, you know we are also talking about newer forms of energy or sectors like green hydrogen, offshore wind is picking up. So those are also opportunities which both governments and the private sector would try to tap going forward. So that is one.

Second, of course, is the market innovations and mechanisms. For example, speaking from the Indian context, yes, we do have, again, differing solutions across different states focused on rooftop solar, direct, open-access contracting with the renewable energy generators, but a larger green tariff market or a virtual power purchase agreement market, the likes of which we are seeing in Europe or the US, those are yet to take off here. So that would be one other.

And third, I believe that you know large corporates will figure a way out. You know, they have strong financial backing and clean energy suppliers actually will queue up to provide solutions to them. But it is the smaller MSMEs [Micro-, Small-, and Medium-sized Enterprises] which definitely still need capacity, you know and support to, you know, participate in this clean energy transition. So, I feel tackling these challenges and, you know, helping companies, along with of course other consumers, is what is going to help these markets grow.

26:45 – 26:47 Clorinda (WRI Indonesia)

Thank you Deepak. And maybe Pak Beni?

26:48 – 30:14 Beni Suryadi (ASEAN Centre for Energy)

So maybe I just talk about the two countries the Southeast Asia region and start with of Vietnam. I mean, we have seen how Vietnam is making history as the fastest country in the Southeast Asia region in bringing renewable energy, particularly in solar and wind, into their energy system. So, a lot of the policy framework incentive to be put in place, we translated into the success of Vietnam in skyrocketing their renewable energy mix. But there we also need to recognize the challenge that currently Vietnam is experiencing where they need to do more on the grid enhancement integration. Upgrading the national grids has become very crucial now to support the higher levels of renewable energy. Updating the national grid has become necessary to cope with the aspiration, the ambition for Vietnam to bring clean energy more into the system. Investing in the grid infrastructure, to reduce transmission loss and improved reliability, will ensure a stable and efficient energy supply. And of course all of it needs high investment, so this is where the public-private partnership and international cooperating becomes also very crucial, because for starting a partnership between the public and private as we discuss earlier, will drive this progress.

And the same case is happening in Indonesia, in how public and private partnership will play significant roles in so-called awakening the sleeping giant of Indonesia, as we know, that has a tremendous potential in the clean energy. They have hydro, geothermal, solar, wind, which, referring to many data that we have, is still a tiny portion of it that’s being utilized. While at the same time, we also recognize that over half of the country is still relying heavily on the fossil fuels and over half of the coal-fire power plants in Indonesia is less than 10 years [old].

So, there is a massive effort for the waking Indonesia to transition away from the fossil fuels to the clean energy direction, which required a detailed, strategic assessment to ensure and minimize the risk of the stranded assets, jobs losses, and economic impact.

But what the other potential solution is also beyond the border of the country itself, right? So, in the Southeast Asia region, we are embracing the regional integration through the Asian power grids. With help, we escalated the process of the energy transition in the region, the spirit under the Asian power grid so that we can optimize resources and match with the demand, this will help the countries, Vietnam, Indonesia and the countries in the Asian region to progressingly achieve the clean energy goals in the future.

30:15 – 31:00 Clorinda (WRI Indonesia)

I noticed two different angles between Deepak and Pak Beni, here. Deepak is talking more about the different interventions, like how we can grow the market and also helping the smaller SMEs.

And Pak Beni raised a really great point regarding the supply side of the energy itself; upgrading the grid and also how, in the future, solutions Asian power grid is one of the growing and emerging topic – not emerging, it's been years -- but it's continuously growing topic, in the region. And Justin, yeah if you may add about the how these countries can achieve their clean energy goals in the future and what are the potential solutions moving forward?

31:01- 33:07 Justin Wu (HSBC)

Yeah, I think Deepak and Pak Beni covered, quite well, I think some of the main points. I think all four countries are quite different. If you look at China, it pretty much will, you know, probably be the only country that will either hit or overachieve its, you know, clean energy goals which it set itself. Actually, I think it's the only one that will achieve this, you know, the so-called “three times renewable energy by 2030,” right, which was set out at the COP28 agreement.

India obviously, Deepak has mentioned, also has actually done a tremendous job at scaling renewable energy. And we see, obviously, developments in Vietnam and Indonesia as well, though I think slower in these two countries due to some of the reasons that we mentioned earlier around deployment, cost of capital and policies and, you know, still a lot of subsidies for fossil fuels in these countries.

I think one other question, maybe I'll just touch on briefly is, while clean energy is scaling in these countries, all four are still heavily reliant on fossil fuels, primarily coal, right? And each actually have quite a bit of it. Actually, all four are still building coal-fired power plants, right, even though some have set end dates for when that would happen, but all four are still building them. So, there is this sort of big question out there that, you know, even as we are scaling up renewable energy, all four are still heavily reliant on fossil fuels. And I think, to kind of get around that, right, so you know, not only to hit your clean energy targets, but how do you take a holistic approach to decarbonize your energy system that requires I think, you know, quite a bit of planning and sort of long-term thinking about the energy system...maybe some tough choices and big decisions to be made, right, about how you transform the way that you supply sort of electricity and power in all these countries. And there are a lot of technological solutions out there to allow that to happen, but to actually deploy them at scale and to get it to the level that we need to see, you know, that's still very much a work in progress.

33:08 – 33:33 Clorinda (WRI Indonesia)

Thank you Justin. I think we already reached the end of the podcast, so if each speaker, Justin, Deepak, and Beni, if you may help us finish this sentence. “These countries will reach their clean energy goals if the private sectors...” then you may continue. Maybe I’ll start with Justin, first.

33:34 – 34:22 Justin Wu (HSBC)

Well, I think what we’ve established in our conversation is that this is clearly a public-private partnership, right? There’s definitely a role for the private sector and I can finish that sentence for you, but I think the public sector needs to create this enabling environment and allow a, you know, level playing field, right? Whether it's with you know the type of support you offer to different types of energy, creating the infrastructure that you need, the grid infrastructure, and the other things around it.

But if I were to just answer your question about the private sector, you know, one thing I would push is to raise ambition, right? I think, set your goals but also raise your ambition and try to always work towards it. I think that's how we need to sort of think about climate; that we may not have all the right targets today, but we need to raise our ambition so we eventually get to where we need to get to.

34:23 – 35:36 Beni Suryadi (ASEAN Centre for Energy)

Thank you. The Asian countries will read their clean energy goals faster if the private sector is fully part of the process. So, I see that there are many countries in the Southeast Asia region where there's a regulated market where most of the private sector is on the receiving side, that's going to be without really being fully involved in the market itself. I understand there is a lot of concern that if it's being liberalized, then the private sector might make the costs higher and then because energy is a very crucial power, a right of the people, then it may cause trouble. But I do also believe that the private sector has a lot of innovation to bring to the table. So, if they're given a role to really be part of the energy system in the countries, then they will help the countries to achieve their clean energy goals faster than what the government only can do.

35:37 – 36:47 Deepak Krishnan (WRI India)

Yeah, so I think a lot of points have been covered both by Justin and Pak Beni, but definitely the innovation part is crucial because the initial investments that the private sector can bring in, you know, facilitate innovations that can actually help reduce cost of technologies, which can help other segments of the society. So, definitely the innovation factor is crucial. But at the same time, participating in the public decision-making process and sharing these learnings that they have gained through the innovations. And again, this is something we see a lot of companies do once they have successfully implemented something or scaled something up. They generally try to build coalitions, share their learnings, and encourage others to adopt [them]. So, I think that participatory approach is also very crucial because, you know, if these learnings are stuck only within one particular company's walls, then it couldn't benefit anyone. So, I think the innovation and participation are the two key aspects from the private sector to help countries scale their clean energy.

36:48 – 38:11 Clorinda (WRI Indonesia)

Very much agree Deepak. Thank you so much.

As you heard, the four countries in Asia where CSP Energy operates are a barometer for the clean energy transition. Next time, we’ll take you behind the scenes of WRI India’s work to bring stakeholders together at the nexus of health and energy.

That does it for this edition of Turning Up Clean Energy in Asia. A podcast series produced and edited by Daniel Baker with funding from the Climate Solutions Partnership. The CSP is a 5-year partnership between WRI, WWF, and financed by HSBC with a focus on nature-based solutions and accelerating the clean energy transition in Asia.

You can learn more about this work and hear future episodes in the series on our website: wri.org/initiatives/climate-solutions-partnership

Thank you to our guests – Beni Suryadi, Justin Wu, and Deepak Kirshnan – who made this episode possible. For my colleagues at WRI, my name is Clorinda Wibowo. Don’t forget to leave us a 5-star rating on whatever podcast platform you listened to this episode on. Every review counts. Thanks for listening!